Episódio 86: Nutrição infantil com Tammy Horger e Debbie Phang

abril 25th, 2025 /
Spencer Tuinei /

Sup com o Sup

00:00 / 25:47

Wendy Dau: Welcome everyone to the next episode of Provo City School District’s What’s up with the Sup podcast. I am superintendent Wendy Dau. For this episode, I am visiting with two amazing employees from our Child Nutrition department. Tammy Horger is our Child Nutrition Director, and Debbie Phang, who is our district’s dietician. We are going to highlight the great work our Child Nutrition Department does to provide healthy and delicious meals for our students, as well as discuss a recent taste- testing event they held to try out new recipes.

First, here are our updates.

The Provo City School District recently heard the results of our Boundary and Feasibility Study.
- This study was intended to guide future planning by analyzing demographic trends, enrollment patterns, geographic considerations across the district, and the school board is going to continue to analyze this and other data in the near future.
  - They’ve already submitted a list of additional questions that they have.
- Potential next steps include further evaluation of school boundaries, program offerings, and transportation routes.
  - The board’s goal is to ensure equitable access to educational opportunities while using facilities and resources efficiently and sustainably.

We would also like to update you on Wasatch Elementary.
- Recently, we encountered water behind the retaining wall on the south portion of the Wasatch property, which led to problems with this wall itself and the south parking lot.
- An investigation was commenced to determine the cause of the issues, and it was determined that the issues are not occurring because of water draining from the surface.
  - After even more investigation, including– we had a third party independently study the site– it has been determined that this water is coming from the mountain above the school.
  - It is likely that the unusually wet weather we have last year, which was preceded by years of drought conditions, have created this issue and delayed the effects that are now being felt.
    - We want to emphasize that the structure of the school is not in any danger. The school building itself is securely built on stable native soil and is not at risk of settling.
  - Additionally, since the water is entering the property at a much lower level, all other retaining walls on the school site are not affected.
  - This current condition is isolated specifically to that south retaining wall. We are actively working on solutions. We’re committed to moving forward carefully.
  - We will be receiving more information, including costs this week as our architects and engineers prepare several options for how to address the water issue.
    - These proposals will be presented to the school board on April 29th, where then we will adopt a plan of action for resolving the issues.
    - We are working with all entities involved to determine financial responsibility for all of the issues identified, and we won’t know the full impact until the Board of Education finalizes their plan of action and a final determination regarding responsibility has been made.

In Provo City School District, our library system provides families with tools to make informed choices.
- Ensuring that parents can guide their child’s reading experience in the system, parents are able to view our library catalog view your child’s checked out books,
- Restrict your child from checking out specific books,
- and review the sensitive materials policy and book review process.
  - Please visit the district website for more information.

This is Us Art Gala is on Monday, April 28th at 5:00 PM at Shoreline Middle.
- It is sure to be a fun evening for all families.

Há uma série de normas e procedimentos disponíveis para análise no site do distrito.
- Acesse provo.edu.
- Clique em Policies, Forms, and Documents (Políticas, formulários e documentos).
- You can click on review draft policies here. It will enable you to submit your feedback.

The next school board meeting is on Tuesday, April 29th.
- The study session will begin at 4:00 PM in Board Room One.
- We have a Retiree Reception that will begin at 5:30 PM in the PDC with a Business Meeting beginning at 6:00 PM
  - Please join us as we will be honoring our retirees during the business meeting, which starts at six in the Professional Development Center.

Continue atento aos meus videocasts semanais em seu e-mail. Esses videocasts são um lugar para você se informar sobre coisas importantes que estão acontecendo no distrito.

And now let’s talk with Debbie and Tammy.

This week we are featuring our Child Nutrition Department, and so I want to allow our guests to introduce themselves, tell us how long they’ve worked in Provo City School District, and just a little bit about what has made them so passionate about Child Nutrition work here in the district.

Tammy Horger: Well, I’m Tammy Horger. I am the director of the Child Nutrition Program. I’ve been here about two and a half years. However, I’ve been in the field of Child Nutrition for about 30 years. Oh. So I’m an old timer. So what I love about Provo is they just are a step above any other district I’ve known or worked in.

As far– and this is what makes them special– we serve an enormous amount of fresh fruits and vegetables in our program. And when I first came, in fact, the office staff said, no canned fruit or vegetables. And I said, well, we have to have a little bit in case there’s an emergency, but we just don’t even really do canned fruits and vegetables.

So we have a big selection of fresh fruits and vegetables every day for our kids.

Wendy Dau: Isso é fantástico.

Tammy Horger: It’s awesome.

Wendy Dau: That’s awesome. All right, Debbie, tell us a little bit about you.

Debbie Phang: So, I’m Debbie. I’m the dietician for Provo School District’s Child Nutrition Department. And I’ve been here for a little over a year now.

It’s kind of wild. It feels like it’s been my whole life, but I just, I just feel like I fit in so well here and I love it so much. And, one of the reasons I love it so much is just because everyone’s passionate about this program and our kitchen managers all have really like their heart and soul in what they do.

Like I’ve never seen people care so much about the work they do and the kids that they work for, and they have just like the best feedback for me and make my job fun, but also make it mean something– to be able to really like create stuff together. And so I love it.

Wendy Dau: That’s great. Yeah! What are some of the things you guys are taking into account as you’re trying to figure out what’s gonna help kids eat better?

Tammy Horger: Oh, that is such a good question. Okay, so we are federally funded and therefore oversight is we are overseen by the federal and state governments the most nutritious meal is one that a child will eat.

Wendy Dau: Well said. Well said, Tammy.

Tammy Horger: It’s true. It’s so true. And so we have a job to do, which is to create menus that are yummy and that kids recognize this as something familiar.

I eat this at home, or I’ve seen this before. This is familiar to me. And at the same time, make it lower fat, lower sodium, lower sugar, whatever the mandates are that are coming down. And so that’s where Debbie comes in, too. So tell them a little bit about how you plan the menu, Debbie.

Debbie Phang: So basically when I’m looking to develop like a new recipe or something like that for a menu we’ll kind of have like a fun day where we go into the school and make the recipe and we do a little taste test with the kids and get some feedback there.

Wendy Dau: That’s fun.

Debbie Phang: It’s super fun. And kids are always excited to try new food.

And– and so it’s no problem to get participation and feedback from them. And then we also kind of look at the logistics side of things. So how the recipe works ,and if anything needs to be adjusted. Because really a lot of our recipes are made for like a smaller serving size and we have to up the scale to feed hundreds of kids, right?

And so we have to make sure that it makes sense on a larger scale. And then also that, it works in our kitchen. So we have actually quite a bit of really cool equipment larger scale ovens and all of that stuff. So we have to make sure it works that way. And then also just that it makes sense that it’s not something that’s so labor intensive and not as popular with the kids. And so those kind of things come into play. And then I also put that in and then check all the nutrients and everything and make sure we’re all staying inside the guidelines. So.

Wendy Dau: That’s a big job. You’re– you’re taking into account a lot of different things that you’re finding a lot of factors for sure.

Tammy Horger: She’s the secret weapon. She– she’s a genius at this. It’s going so well. It’s going so well. You’ve probably heard about our food taste test, our food fair that we’re doing this week.

Wendy Dau: Yes. Please tell us more about that.

Tammy Horger: And so that came about because we know that there are more restrictive guidelines coming down the pike for sodium and sugar.

And so we wanna be ready with the recipes that we know that kids are going to eat. Some of our vendors, they can produce items that are lower in fat and sugar and sodium, but it’s not necessarily an item that a student is going to enjoy. And so we really put a lot of focus on is this something that a kid will like?

And so we were talking about that one day and– just a couple of us from a couple of different districts– and then we thought, well, why not have a food show where we bring the kids in and they can test, taste test, some scratch recipes that we have developed or that even are like a blast from the past.

Mm-hmm. Right? Like we’ve had this before years ago and it’s kind of dropped off the radar. Right. And so that’s what we’re doing for. And Debbie, tell me about the recipe

Wendy Dau: Yeah, I’d love to hear more about this.

Debbie Phang: It’s been super fun. So we have a little menu committee, a group of managers that have been here for a long time. And we meet regularly and we talk about stuff they’ve done before, and we try out new recipes and, and just talk about different ideas that we wanna try.

And with the new regulations really we’ve tried to go more for like scratch recipes rather than pre-made products, just because they can be lower in sodium and added sugar without losing that flavor. And then it’s also more cost effective. And so we’ve been talking about that and working on that, and we’ve came up with some homemade recipes that we’re gonna try out this Friday, and we’re gonna get the kids to vote on it and see if they like our recipes.

So. We have a chicken noodle soup.

Wendy Dau: Oh yes.

Debbie Phang: We’re trying that and we’re doing a homemade Parmesan alfredo.

Wendy Dau: Oh, that sounds amazing.

Debbie Phang: It’s very good. It’s good. It’s delicious. It’s very good.

We’re doing mashed potatoes and gravy of course. One of our favorite items at the school. So– so we don’t wanna take away some of the things that, you know, we love and the kids love so much, so we find that they really kind of find a home away from home with, with things like that.

Wendy Dau: That’s absolutely true.

Debbie Phang: Yeah. So we’re doing that. And then we have a peach crisp recipe. Yes, I know. A homemade ranch and a homemade barbecue sauce. And so right now we get our sauces, well, some of our sauces like fry sauce, barbecue sauce, pre-made, and little cups– in little two ounce cups. And so we’re trying to make those from scratch, and that way they taste really good, and they’re fresh, and they don’t have all those other ingredients and they’re lower in sodium and added sugar.

Wendy Dau: So it is something we can do. It is like when people say like, you can’t do that. Like, we can. No, you’re proving them wrong. We absolutely can.

Debbie Phang: Yeah, we can do it. We can do it.

Tammy Horger: I’m just gonna tell you, Wendy, that Provo District and, and I’m not like bragging for myself.

Wendy Dau: No. You need to brag.

Tammy Horger: Yeah. Really, when I say we have a history of doing what’s good for kids, we do. And so past directors have made decisions that are just phenomenal and we’re carrying that forward. And then we’re adding our own little special touch too, right? Like the fruits and vegetables that was in place when I came here.

It was amazing. So we’re carrying that forward. And then our latest stamp that we’re gonna put on what we’re doing is more scratch cooking. And so we wanna move to a point where we have probably 50% of our menu items scratch.

Wendy Dau: Mm-hmm. Oh, that’s incredible.

Tammy Horger: We have the resources, we have the equipment, the staff, we have the knowhow. It’s leaving us a little bit at a time. But so we wanna grab a hold of those older managers who know how to do stuff, right? And really kind of glean their knowledge before they–

Wendy Dau: retire and are like– peace out people’s now’s right. I’ve now taught y’all I need all I can. It’s up to you to keep this going.

Tammy Horger: It’s true. But we’re very fortunate that way. About 30 years ago, there was a huge movement to get rid of school cafeterias and just just bring in frozen stuff that you could just heat up in a little closet. Remember that? Yep. So. Provo didn’t do that. We still have fully functioning kitchens. We are still very well staffed this year, thank goodness.

But we have the ability to take on this challenge, and it’s very exciting. And like Debbie said, we bring in our managers, they know what the kids like. And so we bring them in and then we taste test at the schools and we’re just gonna go forward and with our food show. If this is a success, this is something that I would like to see us do every year.

Wendy Dau: That would be awesome.

Tammy Horger: Bring the kids in and do that.

Wendy Dau: That would be amazing. What do you find are some of the things that kids love that are like some of their favorites. Where you’re like, oh, we’re gonna sell out of this immediately. As soon as they see this on the menu, it’s gone. And there’s probably 20 things probably.

Debbie Phang: They do. Yes. There’s definitely some favorites. We have a homemade mac and cheese that’s a favorite.

Wendy Dau: Oh, that sounds like incredible.

Debbie Phang: It’s so, so good. We have like nachos, supreme recipe. We do a sweet pork salad recipe. I’m not gonna say it’s a copycat recipe, but pretty darn close. It’s just about, if not better than the real thing.

Wendy Dau: I’m certain– of a certain brand, yeah.

Debbie Phang: But yeah, it’s great, and the managers have been so creative with coming up with their own like sauce, recipes and different things to kind of show the kids that, Hey, we’re fun. We’re kind of like your favorite restaurants out there too, but a much healthier and homemade version.

Wendy Dau: I think it’s awesome that the lunch managers can do some things and have some of that say and can be creative in that way. How fantastic is that?

Tammy Horger: They know things and that– just to be able to pull that knowledge out of them is incredible.

Wendy Dau: It’s amazing.

Tammy Horger: In fact, I have found throughout the years. Our best ideas kind of bubble up from the bottom if you let them, if you create an environment where people can bring their ideas and we can test them and see, you know, how viable is this? They will talk to you and they’ll share their ideas and they know things.

They know a lot of things about what kids like.

Wendy Dau: What are the items that the adults come to eat? Because our teachers will go eat.

Debbie Phang: So I have to tell you, at the secondaries we have really amazing salads and we have our regulars.

I’ll say that. Yeah. Yeah. We have feta cheese involved.

Wendy Dau: Oh, that’s awesome.

Debbie Phang: Avocados, fresh avocado. Oh yeah. Yeah. We’ve got some really nice salads.

Wendy Dau: I had no idea.

Debbie Phang: And all homemade dressings. It’s amazing. Oh, that’s incredible. Yeah. So they can eat healthy too. Which– which is also a great thing, uh, for our schools. Yep. That’s fantastic.

What are some of the challenges you face as you’re trying to develop menus or, are helping kids get a meal? Because we know they’re gonna learn better Right? When they actually eat something. I love your quote about if they don’t eat it, then that’s not helpful. Yeah.

That’s the most un nutritious meal. So what are some of the challenges that come from different things that you have to figure out?

Tammy Horger: I think we have some logistical challenges, like our food vendors sometimes is a challenge.

Wendy Dau: Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Tammy Horger: And I think, you know, as far as figuring out what the kids like, we do have kind of east side, west side challenge.

Wendy Dau: Oh, interesting. Isn’t that interesting?

Tammy Horger: Mm-hmm. And maybe a little bit of stigma there, you know, about who leads in the cafeteria and who doesn’t. So. But that’s a little bit of a challenge. There are just some, you know, misperceptions out there sometimes about what it is we really do. And so when we hear, when parents come to us with concerns, we always invite them, you can come to lunch, eat lunch with your students.

Wendy Dau: Sim.

Tammy Horger: We will treat you to lunch at the school. Come to school and see what we’re offering. And so that’s one way to deal with that challenge of the misperceptions. Staffing was a challenge. Yeah. Through the COVID years and a couple years after. But right now we’re doing really well with that.

And so I think the snap turnover has really just slowed down. So training is not as critical. When you have a lot of turnover, they–

Wendy Dau: Oh yeah. The training gets intense. Yep. Yep.

But,

Tammy Horger: but you know, we’re able to train our people and they stay with us. That’s my dream is that they just stay with us for a long time because that knowledge stays with us too.

Wendy Dau: I know when we were in the district office, we had to help out some of our nutrition departments in another district, and we were like going out and I was sending people out that were like teacher specialists, be like, they need, just need some cafeteria people. We gotta get some people out there. And it was, you know, it was that all hands on deck.

So that makes me feel glad that, we’re kind of moving away from that, that high stress situation that we were dealing with.

Tammy Horger: What would you say, Debbie? Some challenges that you encounter?

Debbie Phang: Mainly at all of our schools, we kind of try to have continuity and have the same– not the same menus, but some variations of the same menu, right?

Like the same baseline. And so whenever we’re doing a new recipe, I think it’s kind of challenging to have that recipe be made the exact same way and 18 different schools with–

Wendy Dau: Isso é verdade.

Debbie Phang: Lots of different staff involved. And so I think just getting that ball rolling and getting everything, to be, you know, consistent and look the same, taste the same, all of that stuff.

And then just something that maybe makes perfect sense to me, doesn’t make sense to someone else or–

Wendy Dau: Mm. Makes sense.

Debbie Phang: You know, just different preferences, opinions, and that kind of thing is, can be challenging. Yeah.

Wendy Dau: Yeah. I wish our parents knew. How good they have it in Provo and that their kids don’t need to go off campus. They don’t need to be seeking out these other places because there’s so many great options here.

Like this is incredible– what you are able to do for our students.

Debbie Phang: Thank you. It’s true. I feel that way and I think that, you know, we have so many different options at the different schools. At the elementary schools, we always have two choices, and then at the high school and middle schools, we have four, five, sometimes six lines they can choose from. And so, hopefully everyone can find something they like.

Wendy Dau: That’s a lot of choices.

Debbie Phang: It’s a lot.

Wendy Dau: That’s almost as much as when you go to Chick-fil-A for a meal or something like that, you know? And, and it’s way healthier.

Tammy Horger: Mm-hmm. It’s really healthier and it’s very economical. For two 50, a high school student can eat a very big lunch.

Wendy Dau: So they can actually get the nutrition that they need and the energy and the stamina that they need. That’s incredible.

Tammy Horger: It’s a very, very good deal economically.

Wendy Dau: Yes. We need to be taking advantage of that.

Tammy Horger: Yes, we do. Yes.

Wendy Dau: What are some things that you wish our schools or our district would do to help promote our Child Nutrition Program? What are some things I can do? What are some things that our principals can do to help get this word out and to help people know how awesome it is?

Tammy Horger: That’s a good question. We do promote as much as we know how, of course we’re always growing in that understanding. Yeah. So. But I think as far as supporting our programs, I know that when our– our kitchen staff feel supported by the principal and the school staff, they are so much happier to be there.

And that shows when the kids come in and they’re happy and they feel like I’m a part of this whole enterprise here, it’s kind of a joyful thing, and it kind of flows out of them.

Wendy Dau: I would agree with that. The kids love that. Yeah. Okay.

Tammy Horger: And conversely, you can tell when the lunch ladies don’t like it or when they’re fighting the kids, you cannot fool them.

They know. And then it, some of them, it scares them and so they step back.

Wendy Dau: We wanna make sure that those individuals are really a part of the school culture, right? They need to feel included? And– and not as the separate entity that’s not part of the school.

Right. That’s important. That’s a really good point. You were talking about parents coming, like, I used to go eat lunch with my kids, like once in a while. Not a ton. I didn’t wanna embarrass them because that could be overwhelming. But once in a while we would go and eat lunch with our kids.

How common is that? Or is that something that would stress you out? Does that stress lunch managers out or? Can we help get that word out? Because I think it would be good for a parent to see, this is amazing food.

Debbie Phang: I, we would love that. Honestly, I think it would be great. We’d love to show parents what we have at lunch.

I go out to lunch at our schools a lot during the week because I’m like, oh, it’s nachos. I’m there. And so it’s,

Wendy Dau: That’s a, that’s a good choice, I think. Yeah.

Debbie Phang: I think the more parents that wanna come, the better. And more staff too. Any of the teachers at the school, the principals– we have really fun principals that will come and hang out with us during lunch and get lunch with us. And so more of that would be great. And we’d love to even do like some kind of parent breakfast or lunch.

Tammy Horger: One thing I really, really love to do– we usually do it during national school breakfast week– is Invite Your Loved One to breakfast Day.

Wendy Dau: Awww.

Tammy Horger: And so what it is, is that everyone in– all the kids in the family, even the little bitty kids, they all eat free. And our grade school kids eat free. We usually do in grade school.

And the parents just have to pay like the breakfast price.

Wendy Dau: Certo.

Tammy Horger: But they bring their whole family, all their kids eat free. They have lunch with their family. It’s pretty inexpensive. We try and make it fun with music and balloons and things like that, but the parents get to come and see this is what your kids are eating for breakfast.

So that increases breakfast awareness.

Wendy Dau: Oh, isso é ótimo.

Tammy Horger: And it’s curious to me that a lot of parents still don’t, even though we send home a menu, they still don’t understand we have breakfast every day and all of our schools.

Wendy Dau: Yeah. That that was how I survived as a high school teacher was from school. I would go down because I didn’t have time to grab it before, but I knew that they were gonna have something waiting for me. So that was amazing.

Tammy Horger: Yes. And so with lunch, the same thing. There’s some old school things that have kind of fallen by the wayside, but I think we could easily resurrect, like Bring your loved One to Lunch Day.

Wendy Dau: Yeah, that’s a great idea. We’re gonna have to brainstorm that more and how we can help with that, because I think that sounds fantastic.

Tammy Horger: It’s so fun. I love it.

Wendy Dau: It sounds super fun. So let me ask a logistical question. If I wanted to go to a school and eat school lunch, where should I go? First off, what would be your recommendation? Or are there several that I should, I should go to? And then do I bring cash?

Do I bring a card? What do I have to do? What does that look like if I’m a visitor that’s coming in?

Tammy Horger: Okay, so we don’t currently, in this day and age, have the possibility of just taking a credit card on the right, on the serving line. I wish we did. I– I think that’s something we need to work on, but you could bring cash.

Wendy Dau: Certo, perfeito.

Tammy Horger: And just pay in the line as you go would probably be your best option.

Wendy Dau: Certo, perfeito.

Tammy Horger: If your child has an a lunch account, you can use up their lunch money.

Wendy Dau: Because it is kind of their money. It’s their, okay, that makes sense.

Tammy Horger: The cashier could just put you in as an adult. And– and it would pull from that account too.

Wendy Dau: Okay. Okay. That’s easy to know. Where should I go? Like, where am I going for lunch? I see. See how you guys are– you don’t even wanna wanna say one because you’re afraid it’s gonna– oh no, you’re so good.

Debbie Phang: I would say Edgemont is a very good school to go to. Yes. Provo High. Centennial. I know honestly, any of the schools would be a good one.

Wendy Dau: I just don’t wanna freak people out. Superintendent just showed up for– like, I’ll let ’em know I’m coming ahead of time.

Tammy Horger: Let ’em know you’re coming out. Just come, yeah, just come be great. You’ll see different things at different schools.

They each have their own. Being that they’re good at. But we have a little gal from Provo Peaks, she’s 88 years old, and she just came in the office today and she said, I just love those little kids so much, you know, and that’s why she keeps doing what she’s doing. And so it’s, you just feel that from them.

So you’ll feel that a lot from some schools and the other schools a little more focused on tasking, I guess.

Wendy Dau: Right. Right.

Tammy Horger: But you’ll just feel different things at different schools. And the food’s good everywhere. And the staff is phenomenal. It’s true. I do love Provo High. Their food is really good.

Debbie Phang: It’s amazing. Yep. It’s really good. Shoreline too. I don’t know. I’m just gonna start saying, every school, every school’s got really awesome food.

Wendy Dau: I’ll just show up somewhere. It’ll be good. And I just think it would be really fun. We could do some video promos and stuff just so that our parents know like, this is how good it is, and you have all the information. So like I could find out how many calories are in something. And so like, if I’m really conscientious about that, which I’m not at all, but if I were–

Debbie Phang: Yes.

Wendy Dau: And I needed to be or something, or I wanted to be, then I can do that too.

Debbie Phang: So yes, everything is online available. You can get there, you know, from our regular website. Yep. And our menus are all posted so you’ll just go through and click what school you’re going to. And we’ll have exactly what they’re serving that day. And you can click on each item and it will tell you all the nutrition information, all the allergens, anything you need to know.

Wendy Dau: Oh, that’s amazing. So just all of that information just at our fingertips. It is what a world.

Tammy Horger: Right? When I first started doing this, there is no way we dreamed of this day. Right? We dreamed of this day when we barely had computers back, but we dreamed of this day. It was like the Jetsons, you know?

Wendy Dau: Sim!

Tammy Horger: And now it’s here.

Wendy Dau: It’s here.

Tammy Horger: We have it, and we hardly think twice about it.

Wendy Dau: No, it’s– it’s amazing. Such a great thing to provide for our families and our kids. And it’s so great! So. That’s awesome. Well, thank you so much for coming and just sharing, and I can’t wait.

I’m gonna have to go eat some school lunch.

Debbie Phang: Oh, please come.

Wendy Dau: Okay. I’m going to.

Debbie Phang: Okay. That’ll be great.

Wendy Dau: Thank you, Tammy. Thank you, Debbie.

Tammy Horger: Thank you, Wendy. Our pleasure.

Wendy Dau: Obrigada a todos por participarem do episódio desta semana de What's Up With the Sup. Como sempre, todos os episódios serão publicados no site do distrito, no YouTube e em todos os lugares onde você recebe seus podcasts. Se tiver algum tópico ou pergunta que gostaria que discutíssemos no podcast, envie-nos um e-mail para podcast@provo.edu.

E não se esqueça de nos acompanhar na próxima semana para mais um novo episódio de What's Up With the Sup. Tenham todos um ótimo fim de semana.

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